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09 April 2011 @ 01:53 am
Two tangentially related bits of meta  

The grumpy meta goes out of the way first: you know what's irritating? That even though big fandom comms like fanficrants seem to have reached a consensus in that warning for slash is offensive, the practice is still so prevalent. More insidious still is when people who label themselves as fans of the gay start talking about how slash "corrupted" them because it's just so edgy, I mean, look at these guys not being 100% straight! Plain amazing, I say. /sarcasm

I'm venting because I'm well past my stretch of patience with the idea of slash (or femslash, same "logic" would apply) as some quirky little kink. I realize it's not my place to police why people like whatever they like, but nor do (general) you get to police what slash is, especially if you insist on billing it as some "corrupting influence". Fandom is huge, after all, and more diverse than the mainstream stereotype would suggest. Some of us write what's labelled as slash for the characters, and if we also write porn we see it as a nice bonus. Some of us write slash and other queer fic because we like the opportunity to portray characters as not all cis heterosexuals for once. Still others are into this slash thing for different reasons, and that's all well and good! We can get along, whatever our respective motives are.

But. Look here: the exoticizing attitude is problematic. It bothers me because I'm a genderqueer pansexual guy and I kind of care about this equal representation thing. I'm not in this for the lulz or whatever. Therefore, if (general) you alternate between objectifying and warning for people like me (or somewhat like me), I will judge you. And I won't feel even slightly sorry.

(This isn't to say that all straight people who like slash act that way, but that much should be obvious.)

*

Moving on! I've had some meta sitting around for a while, and unlike the above rant this is actually fun. It's my favourite part of this post, in fact, but I'll cut it because it's fandom-specific. Not to mention it got long.
*Note: I'll be referring to Big Boss by the fandom moniker "BB" throughout for consistency, assuming if you read this you'll know up to which point he was known as Snake.

Let's start this off with something I wonder: I wonder why this pairing isn't more popular. I'd understand if the idea were completely out of left field, but that's not the case either given the entire MGS series would crumble without the relationship - however you may interpret it - between these two characters. It's one of the threads going from the beginning (the chronological, in-universe beginning) right down to where MGS4 ends. That's 1964 to 2014, and let's not forget MGS3 picks up in 1964 with FOX already established. (If the meme of Big Boss encompasses the Solid Snake arc, which turns out to have only ever been one part of the whole by MGS4, you can't do without setting Big Boss in relation to the other key figures who directly shape the outcome: Ocelot, EVA and Zero. Different as these three may be, they share BB as the main motivator for their actions - and considering how ruthlessly insane and ultimately self-destructive some of these actions are, it's important what or who they did it all for. Zero is more difficult to redeem than the other two for many reasons, but let's leave that aside for now.)

When I was first exposed to MGS3, like everyone else I was blinded by Ocelot (the BB/Ocelot dynamic being another prominent thread that holds the series together). The second time around, what smacked me in the face was the huge quantity of radio banter between BB and his support team. Now, I can't claim insider knowledge of the special forces, but what struck me about the BB/Zero exchanges was how informal they were. The only traces of a chain of command being in place show when BB refers to Zero by rank, and for that we don't even know whether it's what he'd always do, or whether he's simply being consistent with the policy of the current mission. What's obvious is that, apart from BB sticking to the formal address and taking orders as he's supposed to, their interaction is far removed from the typical superior-subordinate kind. Hell, they reminisce about how long they'd known each other, banter about tea vs. coffee, discuss nightmares, quote unprompted song lyrics ("dream a little dream", anyone?), and the list goes on. Either they're complete n00bs who can't approach a top-secret mission professionally (which we know they're not) or this indicates they are closer than the circumstances would lead one to expect.

The above is a reason to see them as equals, and I can't help but find that fascinating given the military framework in which they operate. (Caveat: they do things Zero's way in FOX, not just well but perfectly, so the unit as a whole might've just been atypical; caveat 2: never been in the special forces BUT NEITHER HAS KOJIMA. I think.) If there are inequalities between them as well, these would be more subtle. I don't think age by itself plays much of a role in this sense because there are so many more important factors here besides that random fact. A real imbalance, I think, would be caused more by their differing life experience. Canon doesn't say much about Zero's backstory before MGS3, but I wouldn't be surprised if he'd had the classic upper-class civilian British education, broadening his horizons quite a lot. Still without clear canon support, I assume he got his rank in WWII (serving alongside The Boss and presumably her Cobras; I want a game of this so bad), and add the SAS for that extra touch of exclusiveness! (This also makes the HALO jump at the beginning of MGS3 a delightful bit of factoid-geekery.) At the same time, he has an apparent history in the British intelligence. (There's one conversation that implies he would've been its head at one point, and that's where his codename comes from: the initial O to 0, hence Zero. I'm still not sure if he's actually saying "Hey, I used to be head of the SIS!" but it's clear he was the boss of some organization.) Zero also calls himself "the primogenitor of the solo sneaking mission" at one point, even though BB is the one carrying it out by the time we hear about this. On the whole, there seems to be lot of inventing, travelling, organizing and negotiating in both his past and present. He's resourceful enough to run his own special unit in another country. And he's not naive in any way, which is telling. (Example - BB: "You're saying I can trust her?" | Zero: "I'm saying that the chance she'll betray you is low.")

You have to admit, that's a lot of talents.

BB doesn't have that advantage. When Zero complains to him that "American soldiers rely too much on ready-made equipment", that illustrates the difference pretty well. The problem is that BB himself is "ready-made". We don't know much about his childhood, but looking at how he became The Boss's apprentice at 15, a few years later he was an atomic test subject, then in the early '60s he would've been sent to Vietnam (hi Python!), and finally I suppose Zero picked him up for being such a skilled operative, it's obvious that he'd never known much else. He'd been groomed for the battlefield, and we all know the unfortunate connotations this has in Metal Gear. He'd spent his entire youth being one-purpose, which just makes him an awesome spy/soldier but not much else as far as qualifications go. Where Zero would've been broadening his horizons, BB was being consciously used. Even the respect-commanding title "Big Boss" is just something he's given, never mind that it's for an assassination he'd had to perform against his will without even knowing its ultimate purpose.

As we know, he doesn't stay a follower forever - but when, finally, Big Boss becomes a leader in his own right, whatever favourable relationship he'd had with Zero is down the drain. (To be fair, if I found myself cloned without my consent and duped by the very same organization that was supposed to stand against that kind of manipulation, I'd walk out too.) I tend to assume the cloning is when the Patriots' fascination with BB (or was that hero-worship?) takes a turn for the creepy, but it's implied there had been tensions earlier. This makes me suspect that BB was a lot more comfortable for Zero to have around when he was content to be an associate, rather than being in the management. Which is ironic, considering that in MGS3 when they are kept in a formal structure there is hardly any mutually acknowledged indication of it. (And notice how Zero probably wasn't planning world domination yet, since FOX first takes this mission to justify its continued existence - and BB is to physically accomplish the job.)

Back in MGS3, are they equal? It would be odd for Zero not to be aware of the advantage he has, but I think he'd like them to be. That's why we get so much friendly banter, Actual Personal Concern (remember that bit at the end of the Virtuous Mission when all he cares about is that BB tend to his injuries now), and even an admission that how spies end up when discovered makes him "want to cry". No, seriously, would you trumpet that during a mission you were leading? Didn't think so. That crosses so many boundaries I don't even.

There's a whole host of things to do with the development post-Portable Ops and when things really go sour, but I'm sticking to the MGS3 era and thereabouts for now. The rest is a story for another time, and a damn depressing one.

>CONTINUE

Why do I even like Zero? Most of the fandom seems to have decided he's a meanieface; for my part, I'm not too big on systems, and wasn't the whole System power abuse his doing? Just, you know, for starters.

I guess the answer is that black-and-white characters are not exactly fun. While Zero might seem more bad than good from some points of view, I'll go with the cliché this once and say that power corrupts. It's clear already in MGS3 that he's not satisfied with the status quo, which in itself seems rather noble - it's just that at some point, he starts going spectacularly badly about fixing it. Again, I'm leaving that era for another time and instead focus on what gave me a reason to start liking him. In contrast to the mess later on, there's also For Your Consideration:

--Zero was the only one not buying into prejudice and employing Sigint, and keeping him on the job when he turned out to be a troublemaker (but still a brilliant tech guy). I'm sure this could be seen as a contrast between the racism typical of America at the time, which someone from the UK wouldn't have been conditioned to - but while that could be an interesting perspective, I wouldn't discount Zero's personality. (Sigint: "The Major, though, he doesn't care about what colour you are. I've never met anyone like him before. He's...different, you know?" | BB: "Oh, yeah, I know.")

--He's likeable. Look at how in FOX, he doesn't insist on the others bowing down to his presence just because they're technically his subordinates. (BB gets the extra-familiar treatment, but both Para-Medic and Sigint are free to debate and even tease a bit.) Again, isn't that a progressive working etiquette?

--Finally, I like the occasional poke at the British stereotype as much as anyone else ("My tea is gone! Who drank it? How am I supposed to have teatime without tea?!" "They're not cookies, they're scones."), but do I really need to point out that British =/= conservative? He's classy, yes, but this is also the guy who claims to have been abducted by a UFO. And who has no qualms about describing how they disposed of bodily wastes back in the day in a casual conversation. And who's an unabashed James Bond geek (I don't even like Bond and I find this cute). Basically, he's not a one-dimensional caricature, and that's good. Why not apply that to his later actions as well - not to gloss over them, but to understand?

And that's my discourse on the nature of two fictional characters for today. Fun times. Thoughts?

Wait, not yet. Time for references, AKA videos of my favourite radio moments (with timestamps for the ones in which the relevant part doesn't start at the beginning of the vid itself, although there's no harm in just watching it all!).

Beyond the Name (Right at the start - apart from what I mentioned about "Zero" earlier, I see what you did there, Kojima, giving him the same birth year as the first British Intelligence outfit. This vid is also full of awesomeness with Sigint as an added bonus, including the box and mask convos.)

"USE A CIGAR, YOU WHINY YANK" (Starts at 3:30; also their freak-out over BB falling into the cave is hilarious.)

After the Nightmare (The Zero part starts at 4:04, but all the convos in this are hilarious. It's just that the Zero bit is funny and rather touching in more ways than one).

"I'll be your eyes" (First convo from 5:38 on, notice how Zero just tells BB that. Can you share personal feelings, even on the battlefield? Directly after that, we get a counselling session after BB surfaces from The Sorrow's river, which starts out all nice and helpful until Zero gets worried enough to ask Para-Medic. THEN CUE STUTTERING. If I went on about their unusual openness before, these two exchanges illustrate it nicely. At 5:30 comes the UFO comment to complete the show.)

"What do I do if I meet that guy?" (Snake, Zero doesn't like you looking like someone else. >8U But seriously, what I always imagine here is him watching BB beat poor Raikov up and, uh, enjoying himself. Kinky.)

Jealous of Ocelot? (Starts at 5:30. It's a nice point for BB/Ocelot as well, obviously.)

Lots of history exposition that I just want to link because it's fascinating.

Stuff (The part with Sigint talking about the discrimination working in FOX saved him from is right at the start; also lots of individual fun conversations throughout. The lulz really start at 7:44 and go on right to the end. "...Lighten up.")

Never mind The Boss defected, just patch yourself up OR ELSE.

The short classics: WHO DRANK ZERO'S TEA?! and "They're not cookies!" and Fantastic foresight with James Bond.

I could spam forever, but I'll stop now. AND THEN EVERYONE BREATHED A SIGH OF RELIEF.

 
 
 
Imaginesimagines on April 9th, 2011 01:07 am (UTC)
I don't have much spare time to read fic these days, so I have a long list of things that automatically disqualifies a fic from the list of "things I care about reading." Warning for slash? TOTALLY ONE OF THEM. Far too often, it signifies that the writer is not entirely comfortable with writing queer characters/ queerness in general, and I just don't have time for that.

I used to do it, though. [eta for clarity: I used to warn for slash & talk about slash having "corrupted" me.] Wish I hadn't—would love to pretend I didn't—but yeah. :/ Way back when I was still up on my hyper-religious high horse, before the gigantic smackdown I got by way of realizing I was ALL KINDS OF QUEER. I'm forever grateful that fandom ripped apart everything I thought was true and taught me how to be a better person. I DID IT, THE REST OF [GENERAL] YOU CAN DO IT TOO >(

Edited at 2011-04-09 01:08 am (UTC)
See you later, instigator: Albus/Gellert (by ushitora_icons)oudeteron on April 9th, 2011 12:27 pm (UTC)
Seconding your first paragraph like burning.

And, yeah, I actually know what you mean even though I don't come from a religious background - that "corrupting" discourse used to be pretty standard in some fandoms. But similarly to your situation, fandom ended up providing leverage for me to question the sort of unthinking assumptions I used to take for granted, as well as accept that I didn't fit them. Wonder if that's the standard narrative now. XD

I DID IT, THE REST OF [GENERAL] YOU CAN DO IT TOO >(
<3
MissTeacakes: majorbottomsmissteacakes on April 9th, 2011 03:00 am (UTC)
I actually saw a het warning mixed in the Alexander fandom a while back. 'Course, I'm a jerk and feel that warnings in general are for wusses (the pairing list, rating, and summary are all that should be needed.)
燕雀安んぞ鴻鵠の志をしらんや: POKELOLcowgirlmaxwell on April 9th, 2011 03:37 am (UTC)
I'm a jerk and feel that warnings in general are for wusses (the pairing list, rating, and summary are all that should be needed.)

Oh god, this. I can't be the only one sick to death of WARNING: RAPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! all over fics that only have an implicit mention of rape to do with a character's backstory that was already established in canon.
If someone is triggered so badly by mentions of rape that they can't deal with something like that, I can't fathom why they'd be involved in a fandom where it's part of the canon.
Not to say that people who get triggered by rape/rape victims should FVCK OFF FROM FANDOM or anything stupid like that, it's just that nothing gets me fired up more than someone complaining about a trigger in a fanwork whilst the trigger is in the fandom's canon.
.....And if anyone's going to complain about my examples, rape was the first significant trigger that came to mind.
(unspecified) - missteacakes on April 9th, 2011 03:46 am (UTC) (Expand)
(unspecified) - cowgirlmaxwell on April 9th, 2011 03:53 am (UTC) (Expand)
(unspecified) - athenemiranda on April 9th, 2011 04:10 am (UTC) (Expand)
(unspecified) - missteacakes on April 9th, 2011 04:35 am (UTC) (Expand)
(unspecified) - athenemiranda on April 9th, 2011 04:46 am (UTC) (Expand)
(unspecified) - missteacakes on April 9th, 2011 05:35 am (UTC) (Expand)
(unspecified) - oudeteron on April 9th, 2011 11:04 am (UTC) (Expand)
燕雀安んぞ鴻鵠の志をしらんや: Snakecowgirlmaxwell on April 9th, 2011 03:06 am (UTC)
I never got warnings for slash/femmeslash/het
I mean
Writers should be listing the pairing that the fic is written with, so putting a slash warning on 'Snake/Otacon' seems ridiculously redundant. If you're reading a fic from a fandom whose characters you don't even know, you brought it on yourself.

On the other hand, I don't think starting a shitstorm over something so little is particularly mature, and just adds to the 'Crazy Livejournal Feminist/Extreme PC User' stereotype. (This last part wasn't aimed at you, just a musing about LiveJournal in general)
See you later, instigator: Bad Education3oudeteron on April 9th, 2011 02:01 pm (UTC)
Well, there's a difference between "starting a shitstorm" and "pointing out some practice is wrong". Dismissing the issue as insignificant just means being unaware of the context and the consequences of endorsing prejudiced "warnings" in a culture that has long stigmatized any difference.

Also, just saying: if there's a stereotype about the people who care about this kind of thing, that says a lot more about the ones who came up with such a stereotype than the people the stereotype is about. I'll happily be a radical LJ queer if that's what it takes! :P
Thene: joyathenemiranda on April 9th, 2011 04:02 am (UTC)
Slash didn't corrupt me, slash fixed me; flipped that switch from 'other' to 'self', and you can't warn for that experience - it was a first-glance-in-the-mirror, primal recognition thing. Warning for it is banned on mgs_fanworks, but I don't haet those who warn in general - I suspect that they're mimicking something from whatever fan culture they started off at (probably the Pit) and they need to be gently taught better manners. (with a crowbar, maybe, or possibly not anything so old-fashioned).

Either Zero has a lot of talents, or Zero is a compulsive fantasist (your circuit's dead, is something wrong?) Pick one! Also, iirc he joined the CIA because The Boss asked him to?

I can't help but wonder if his career was meant to parallel that of James Bond, who was appointed a Navy Commander in WWII and then shifted over to Intelligence by the 1950s. JB grew up mostly in Switzerland (little-known factoid; JB is Scots-Swiss and in canon he pointedly identifies at one point as being not English), was orphaned in his teens and I think he never went to university; you can pretty much tell from Zero's accent that he went to an Oxbridge college and studied Greats, and I can't remember why I came up with this but I think he's an old-boy of Rugby Boy's School - anyway, I am not sure about his horizons being broad other than in the sense of the collective freedom/adventure experience a lot of young people had in WWII. (It would be so easy to invoke WWII gay culture if you ever wanted to. It's said that American leather culture was founded by gay soldiers with surplus motorbikes who, because they'd experienced freedom, didn't want to go home after being discharged. No idea how true that is).

Vietnam didn't start til after MGS3. iirc it is canon that BB and Python met in Korea; I think that at one point it was canon that BB had been in Vietnam at some point but I can't remember if that came from anything other than MG2 (in which we're told he met Frank in Vietnam - which has been retconned to Mozambique for no particular reason other than that MGS has this weird fixation with the Portuguese Colonial War?)

I'd like to call bullshit on the idea that someone in the UK in the 60s wasn't conditioned to racism. I think the US and the UK have tangibly different kinds of racism but Zero's refusal to participate in it would be a personal quirk, not a cultural one.

Just a theory, but I think one reason most people don't latch on to Zero is that he doesn't give us many emotional openings. (imo the biggest is in MGS4, when Eva describes BB as Zero's 'irreplaceable friend', and I think we see his back turned in the Shinkawa backdrop rightaround that moment.) A lot of fans go for moments of vulnerability, and Zero has none. There's also the fact that he's never 'on-set'; Codec conversations are amazing but the most popular MGS characters tend to be people who we see interacting with each other in significant ways.

It's interesting comparing this pairing with Snake/Campbell, which is a much more structured, less trusting relationship, and yet less epically fucked up.
See you later, instigator: Metal Gear Laws - Governmentoudeteron on April 9th, 2011 03:11 pm (UTC)
TL;DR enough for LJ to split
I don't haet on them either, if warning is just something they've picked up through a shifted usage of the term (it seems some people don't grasp that "warning = squick connotations" because of the archives that insist on using them as tags). But since fandom at large seems capable of re-evaluating its culture, I'd say it's a good opportunity to seize and educate. "Gently." XD (Speaking of which, I noticed there's been a fic posted to _fanworks recently that warns for slash in the header and it made me double-take.)

Anyway, finally someone picked my second fanrant to respond to - I was starting to think I shouldn't have merged them (which I probably shouldn't have in retrospect). Thank you. ;_;

My headcanon is that if The Boss worked with the SAS, they'd have sort of switched afterwards with Zero moving over to the CIA because she asked - and then semi-independent FOX would be the next logical step? It kind of looks like Zero's moving up to bigger and bigger organizations from MGS3 onwards. XD

Now I'll have to watch old-school James Bond to see if they have any direct parallels. But I like how MGS is always between intertextuality and IRL canon, e.g. with the 1909 thing (Zero is literally as old as the official British Intelligence, oh snap.)

you can pretty much tell from Zero's accent that he went to an Oxbridge college and studied Greats, and I can't remember why I came up with this but I think he's an old-boy of Rugby Boy's School
Yes, that's exactly what I meant! And I think that sort of edcuation would have been broad horizons compared to BB. Zero can afford to have "useless" knowledge because his education wasn't limited to the utilitarian from the start, but I don't suppose anyone ever thought to have BB study a dead language or focus on anything more than he immediately "needed" for his own survival. Hell, the fact alone that Zero almost certainly completed university education while BB got his calling to become a special forces agent at the ripe old age of fifteen is significant. We don't quite know why either of them went into their final line of work, but BB would've had less of a chance to decide for himself. Maybe the first unmediated decision he makes is the one to leave at the very end of MGS3.

It's said that American leather culture was founded by gay soldiers with surplus motorbikes who, because they'd experienced freedom, didn't want to go home after being discharged. No idea how true that is).
What the what, well brb researching!
See you later, instigator: Big Boss - horizonoudeteron on April 9th, 2011 03:12 pm (UTC)
Part II of TL;DR
I don't know what to make of the Vietnam thing. The only way it makes sense to me to include it is going by what the MGS wiki-timeline says ["1961: The CIA begins to sponsor and train the Civilian Irregular Defense Groups (CIDG) in the South Central Highlands of Vietnam, which is mainly composed of local defense operations, supported by a mobile support component made up primarily of Nung mercenaries called 'Mike Force.' Jack and Python are among the soldiers dispatched into Vietnam to participate in the mission until Python is severely wounded."]. I take it that BB and Python would have been sent there at some point (that's canon according to the pre-battle Python cutscene in MPO), but not yet specifically for the Vietnam war. Maybe. Frankly BB's early life frustrates me because it goes like this: N/A--N/A--The Boss becomes his mentor--ATOMIC TESTS SECRET MISSIONS WAIT HOW OLD IS HE--suddenly he's in FOX! How does all this even combine with "ten years of intensive training with The Boss up to 1959", did he get time off for Bikini Atoll or what? And then he was just okay, right back to the drill? (Well, wouldn't be surprising given the end of the Virtuous Mission, but still.)

(Fun fact, I cracked up at Fox being all "BB FIRST SAVED ME IN VIETNAM" in MG2, since playing it after MPO you know that's been retconned. I guess Kojima just wanted Vietnam somewhere and didn't have as many characters he could've applied that and Mozambique to back then.)

I'd like to call bullshit on the idea that someone in the UK in the 60s wasn't conditioned to racism. I think the US and the UK have tangibly different kinds of racism but Zero's refusal to participate in it would be a personal quirk, not a cultural one.
Yeah, good point. I'm a lot more inclined to see that as a personality thing as well. (Related to that, I wonder if BB's outrage when Sigint tells him about his hardships is that BB shares Zero's conviction, or that he's just had so little contact with mainstream US culture that he wouldn't have got the racist memo to begin with.)

Fff, your theory is probably right, particularly the "on-set/not on-set" bit. And the fact that there's nothing to make sure you get most of the radio convos in the game at all (so even if he might have vulnerable moments - "I'll be your eyes...makes me want to cry" - most people won't have come across them because they're not especially in-your-face). This is one of the reasons I want that bloody WWII game though you've just given me another in this comment, thanks. It'd certainly mix up the perspective!

It's pretty striking how different Solid Snake's support team is from BB's. In the words of Master MG2 Miller: Less you invested in your operative, less you fuck up your relationship? XD



(I do apologize for the length and for my HTML fail.)

Edited at 2011-04-09 03:14 pm (UTC)
Re: Part II of TL;DR - athenemiranda on April 9th, 2011 09:48 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Part II of TL;DR - oudeteron on April 9th, 2011 10:47 pm (UTC) (Expand)
otakujeannie: Crazy BBotakujeannie on April 9th, 2011 05:11 am (UTC)
I warn for slash not because I find it offensive or am uncomfortable with writing it but because I have lived with and know there are still people out there who haven't gotten the memo that gay-bashing is wrong (hell there are idiots out there who still think skin color is a reason to treat others like dirt.) and it's a way to cover my ass if some kid or stick up their ass conservative (note, not all conservative people are like this but the ones on the extreme fringe are) finds my work, I have a leg to stand on (granted not much but I can at least claim an effort in my defense). It's also a habit I've had since my beginning days in fanfic writing, which was shortly after 2000 so old habits die hard. Also I tend to be a peripheral demographic in some of my fanish writings so yeah. Hell I had someone ranting about gay content in commercials on the Super Bowl this year, if writing a warning keeps those assholes away from my work and getting all offended then fine it's a small price to pay (Hell some fandoms I am in, if I had het, I'd fucking warn for that too.

I do not mean to offend of the gay or pansexual community but at the same time I am paranoid and want something to hold against the het only crowd and feel that I do need to acknowledge that some people aren't going to be comfortable with this material despite all the progress gays (and I use the term for both sexes) bisexuals and transgenders have made and in the spirit of tolerance this is a minor concussion.
I would love for the day I don't have to worry about warning for slash but unfortunately we are not at that day quite yet.
See you later, instigator: Gigaville - coffeeoudeteron on April 9th, 2011 11:13 am (UTC)
I wonder if you ever notice that you're enabling those people by warning like this? I don't warn for slash because, quite simply, the argument that not being straight is somehow "warn-worthy" is irrational and bigoted. I mean, I can see your logic, BUT. Quietly pandering to the mindset that slash is wrong is not going to fix anything on the larger scale.

Basically, if someone gets so "upset" by not always seeing straight people, it's their problem, their prejudice, and not something slash writers should pander to. (It may seem like a minor thing, but it's an ingrained idea in mainstream culture that not being the majority is somehow ~upsetting, so I fight it wherever I can.) Is refusing to tolerate hate really intolerant?


PS: "Transgenders" is a common mistake; the correct use would be "transgender people".
(unspecified) - otakujeannie on April 9th, 2011 07:08 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(unspecified) - oudeteron on April 9th, 2011 08:31 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(unspecified) - otakujeannie on April 9th, 2011 07:42 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(unspecified) - oudeteron on April 9th, 2011 08:35 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(unspecified) - athenemiranda on April 9th, 2011 09:17 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(unspecified) - athenemiranda on April 9th, 2011 09:30 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
See you later, instigator: Raiden - lookoudeteron on April 9th, 2011 02:03 pm (UTC)
But wouldn't a warning for incest be more appropriate in that case? Otherwise it's just another instance of slash and Actually Warn-worthy Things being lumped together, and there we go again.
(Deleted comment)
(unspecified) - oudeteron on April 9th, 2011 05:02 pm (UTC) (Expand)
bringing the party to you: 『dante』→ ❝ devil may cry ❞scintillulae on April 10th, 2011 07:36 pm (UTC)
blargh, I'm pretty sure I used to warn for slash back on ff.net, but I think I just put the usual "this story has slash, don't read it if you don't like it!" disclaimer up top or something instead of labeling it specifically under "warnings." But yeah, once I realized how stupid that was, I was like *headdesk*

Mm, I always love your MGS meta, bb. ♥ I'm not gonna lie, I didn't care for Zero too much outside of MGS3 because he didn't show up/didn't get referenced very much until MGS4 and by that point I was like "oh yeah, that guy." (I played the games chronologically, pfft.) But you've totally made me appreciate him a lot more.

(Also this is just from creeping on all the comments and my inability to comprehend the English language, but I'm curious, why isn't "transgendered people" acceptable as a descriptor? That would count as an adjective, in the vein of like, "the wounded kitten" or something, but is it because you only add "-ed" to nouns/verbs to make them adjectives, and "transgender" is already an adjective so adding "ed" would be redundant? /thinking too hard about this)
See you later, instigator: Big Boss/Zerooudeteron on April 10th, 2011 11:12 pm (UTC)
If everyone had that lightbulb moment, fandom would be a better place. (Although, yeah, a "disclaimer" like that is still better than labelling it as a warning outright.)

Thanks! <3 I figure that's why he's not more popular, but I'm fascinated by all the backstory of his character that's sort of hinted at but never spelled out. And by the whole Patriots/Cipher thing. What made me care about him and go back so I could really pay attention to the BB/Zero interaction in MGS3 was Peace Walker, because aside from the "obvious" plotline of that game, the whole damn thing is like Zero's "come back" plea to BB. Even in that visceral scene with dismantling the Boss AI that wouldn't need anything besides The Boss to be important, there's a reference to this ("the lonely fox chases after the one-eyed hound"). I'm a sucker for subtext like that. Now it's established in my headcanon that Zero would've asked Kaz to talk about the different meanings of the word "Cipher" to BB, just to make him get the bloody point. XD

(About the language, I used to go by the same logic - but the problem only becomes clear when you think about it outside of what's technically doable in grammar. Using "transgender" as a verb (or what looks like an adjective derived by conjugating a verb) suggests that it's some random action performed or imposed on the person, rather than a neutral descriptor of a state. It ties in with the explanation of why it's not a noun I linked above; the problem of what the different uses imply is essentially the same.)

Edited at 2011-04-10 11:15 pm (UTC)
(unspecified) - scintillulae on April 11th, 2011 04:48 am (UTC) (Expand)
(unspecified) - oudeteron on April 11th, 2011 08:57 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(unspecified) - scintillulae on April 12th, 2011 02:23 am (UTC) (Expand)
(unspecified) - oudeteron on April 12th, 2011 09:47 am (UTC) (Expand)
(unspecified) - scintillulae on April 12th, 2011 01:31 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(unspecified) - oudeteron on April 16th, 2011 01:39 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(unspecified) - scintillulae on April 16th, 2011 08:34 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(unspecified) - oudeteron on April 17th, 2011 09:37 am (UTC) (Expand)
(unspecified) - scintillulae on April 17th, 2011 07:47 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(unspecified) - oudeteron on April 19th, 2011 08:10 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(unspecified) - scintillulae on April 20th, 2011 07:14 pm (UTC) (Expand)